Rumsfeld Says Iraqis Celebrate Freedom from Fear of Regime

(Defense Department Briefing, April 11) (7020)





The televised scenes of people in Baghdad and elsewhere celebrating


their freedom belie any early commentary that Iraqis were ambivalent


or opposed to the coalition's liberation of their country, Secretary


of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said on April 11.





Rumsfeld spoke at a Pentagon news briefing along with General Richard


Myers, chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff.





"The images of thousands of cheering Iraqis, celebrating and embracing


coalition forces, are being broadcast throughout the world, including


the Arab world," Rumsfeld said in an opening statement. "Possibly for


the first time, Arab people are seeing the people of Iraq waving


American flags and thanking the men and women in uniform for risking


their lives to free them from tyranny. I think it's important that


that message be seen, for America is a friend of Arab people."





General Myers provided an update on combat operations, focusing on


northern Iraq, and expressed regrets to the families of Iraqis killed


when their van ran a checkpoint near An Nasiriyah.





Rumsfeld and Myers took questions on a variety of topics:





-- Looting in Baghdad;


-- News coverage of civil unrest;


-- Prospects for local policing and control;


-- Umm Qasr and humanitarian aid;


-- Hospitals and medical care;


-- Water deliveries;


-- International humanitarian aid;


-- Fighting in Al Qaim;


-- Role of Syria;


-- Baghdad curfew;


-- Search for weapons of mass destruction;


-- Intelligence reports on Saddam Hussein and sons.





Following is the transcript of the April 11 Pentagon news briefing


with Defense Secretary Rumsfeld and General Richard Myers, chairman,


Joint Chiefs of Staff:





(begin transcript)





NEWS TRANSCRIPT 


Department of Defense


April 11, 2003





Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld 


(Also participating Gen. Richard B. Myers, chairman, Joint Chiefs of


Staff.)





(Slides from today's briefing are located at


http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Apr2003/g030411-D-6570C.html


[http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Apr2003/g030411-D-6570C.html].)





Rumsfeld: Good afternoon. Wednesday's events in Baghdad were


remarkable, and yet, the same day, as liberated Iraqis were


celebrating their new-found freedom, we lost an American Marine in a


firefight in Baghdad and suffered a number of wounded, a sad reminder


that the situation in Iraq is still dangerous, and that a good deal of


work remains.





The scenes we've witnessed in Baghdad and other free Iraqi cities


belie the widespread early commentary suggesting that Iraqis were


ambivalent or even opposed to the coalition's arrival in their


country. I think it's fair to say that they were not ambivalent or


opposed, but they were understandably frightened of the regime of


Saddam Hussein and the retaliation or retribution that they could have


suffered. And now, as their fear of the former Iraqi dictator lessens,


the true sentiments of a large majority, I believe, of the Iraqi


people are surfacing. And I think it's increasingly clear that most


welcome coalition forces and see them not as invaders or occupiers,


but as liberators.





The images of thousands of cheering Iraqis, celebrating and embracing


coalition forces, are being broadcast throughout the world, including


the Arab world. And possibly for the first time, Arab people are


seeing the people of Iraq waving American flags and thanking the men


and women in uniform for risking their lives to free them from


tyranny. I think it's important that that message be seen, for America


is a friend of Arab people. And now, finally, Arab people are hearing


the same message, not from U.S. officials, but from their fellow


Arabs, the liberated people of Iraq.





Meanwhile, we're working to expand the flow of free information to the


Iraqi people. We're moving a ground station to Baghdad to expand the


coverage area for radio and television broadcasts. We've begun


broadcasting a one-hour news program and are moving to restore Iraqi


radio and television networks. We're doing this because access to free


information is critical to building a free society.





At the same time, we're working with free Iraqis, those in liberated


areas, and those who have returned from abroad, to establish -- begin


the process of establishing -- an interim authority which will help


pave the way for a new Iraqi government, a government that will be


chosen by the Iraqi people, not by anyone else, and based on


democratic principles and peaceful coexistence with its neighbors and


with the world. The makeup of this interim authority and the


government that emerges from it will be decided by the free Iraqi


people.





In areas where the war is winding down, coalition forces are bringing


humanitarian aid and are working with a number of international


organizations in other countries to deliver food, water, medicine and


other necessities.





General Myers.





Myers: Thank you, Mr. Secretary.





First, let me pass on our regrets to the families of those Iraqis


killed at a checkpoint near An Nasiriyah today. Marines fired on a van


with blacked-out windows after it bypassed the warning signs, failed


to heed verbal and hand warnings to stop, and after it penetrated a


serpentine obstacle. Two children were killed; nine adults were


injured. The injured are being treated by U.S. personnel. So, to the


Iraqi people, a reminder to please stop for checkpoints. We do not


wish to harm innocent people.





On the operational front, coalition forces continue to secure and


stabilize cities and thoroughfares around Iraq, and to focus combat


operations in those areas where resistance continues. Over the past 24


hours, coalition air forces have flown more than 1,000 sorties over


Iraq, and we continue to provide urban close air support to our ground


forces in and around Baghdad and throughout Iraq.





Coalition ground forces continue to clear and secure the remainder of


Baghdad. In the north, ground forces and special forces are securing


Kirkuk and Mosul and are degrading regime forces in and near Tikrit.


This work in the north also includes the beginning of securing the


northern oil fields. Coalition ground and sea forces are also


maintaining security on the Al-Faw peninsula, the port at Umm Qasr,


and Basra, and in the southern oil fields.





We continue to strike key leadership targets when and where we find


them. Earlier today, General Brooks showed you some "playing cards"


some of our forces are using to identify regime leadership. And we


have posted these on DefenseLink.





More still remains to be done, as the secretary said. We have to


continue to create the conditions for a stable environment so the


Iraqis can determine their own future. We must find and eliminate


weapons of mass destruction, and we must get the humanitarian


assistance to the Iraqis who need it.





As far as our engagement in Iraq is concerned, you've got to be


reminded of Churchill's quote -- I certainly am -- "This is not the


end, it is not even the beginning of the end, but it's perhaps the end


of the beginning."





And with that, we'll take your questions.





Rumsfeld: Charlie?





Q: Mr. Secretary, you spoke of the television pictures that went


around the world earlier of Iraqis welcoming U.S. forces with open


arms. But now television pictures are showing looting and other signs


of lawlessness. Are you, sir, concerned that what's being reported


from the region as anarchy in Baghdad and other cities might wash away


the goodwill the United States has built? And, are U.S. troops capable


of or inclined to be police forces in Iraq?





Rumsfeld: Well, I think the way to think about that is that if you go


from a repressive regime that has -- it's a police state, where people


are murdered and imprisoned by the tens of thousands -- and then you


go to something other than that -- a liberated Iraq -- that you go


through a transition period. And in every country, in my adult


lifetime, that's had the wonderful opportunity to do that, to move


from a repressed dictatorial regime to something that's freer, we've


seen in that transition period there is untidiness, and there's no


question but that that's not anyone's choice.





On the other hand, if you think of those pictures, very often the


pictures are pictures of people going into the symbols of the regime


-- into the palaces, into the boats, and into the Ba'ath Party


headquarters, and into the places that have been part of that


repression. And, while no one condones looting, on the other hand, one


can understand the pent-up feelings that may result from decades of


repression and people who have had members of their family killed by


that regime, for them to be taking their feelings out on that regime.





With respect to the second part of your question, we do feel an


obligation to assist in providing security, and the coalition forces


are doing that. They're patrolling in various cities. Where they see


looting, they're stopping it, and they will be doing so. The second


step, of course, is to not do that on a permanent basis but, rather,


to find Iraqis who can assist in providing police support in those


cities and various types of stabilizing and security assistance, and


we're in the process of doing that.





Q: How quickly do you hope to do that? Isn't that a pressing problem?





Rumsfeld: Wait. Wait. But in answer to your -- direct answer to your


question are we concerned that this would offset it, the feeling of


liberation -- suggests that, "Gee, maybe they were better off


repressed." And I don't think there's anyone in any of those pictures,


or any human being who's not free, who wouldn't prefer to be free, and


recognize that you pass through a transition period like this and


accept it as part of the price of getting from a repressed regime to


freedom.





Myers: Charlie, another point, I think, to make is that it's uneven


throughout the country. In the south, where we've been for some time,


where the clerics have been speaking out against looting and for civil


order, where some of the Iraqis citizens themselves are saying let's


don't loot, and that sort of thing, that actually the situation is


pretty good. In Umm Qasr it's in good shape. In Basra, looting has


been going down over time as we track it. So as we go up from the


south, it's getting better and better for obvious reasons. So --





Rumsfeld: Let me say one other thing. The images you are seeing on


television you are seeing over, and over, and over, and it's the same


picture of some person walking out of some building with a vase, and


you see it 20 times, and you think, "My goodness, were there that many


vases?" (Laughter.) "Is it possible that there were that many vases in


the whole country?"





Q: Do you think that the words "anarchy" and "lawlessness" are


ill-chosen --





Rumsfeld: Absolutely. I picked up a newspaper today and I couldn't


believe it. I read eight headlines that talked about chaos, violence,


unrest. And it just was "Henny Penny" -- "The sky is falling." I've


never seen anything like it! And here is a country that's being


liberated, here are people who are going from being repressed and held


under the thumb of a vicious dictator, and they're free. And all this


newspaper could do, with eight or 10 headlines, they showed a man


bleeding, a civilian, who they claimed we had shot -- one thing after


another. It's just unbelievable how people can take that away from


what is happening in that country!





Do I think those words are unrepresentative? Yes.





Q: Mr. Secretary, could I follow that up?





Rumsfeld: Sure! (Laughter.) I think it deserves a follow- up! (More


laughter.)





Q: You seem ready for the -- 





Rumsfeld: Let's go get that newspaper! (Laughter.)





Q: I think the question is, if you -- if a foreign military force came


into your neighborhood and did away with the police, and left you at


the mercy of criminals, how long would you feel liberated?





Rumsfeld: Well, that's a fair question. First of all, the foreign


military force came into their neighborhood and did not do away with


any police. There may have been some police who fled, because the


people didn't like them, and because they'd been doing things to the


people in the local community that the people wanted to have a word


with them about. But we haven't gone in and done away with any police.


In fact, we're looking for police in those villages and towns who can,


in fact, assist in providing order, to the extent there are people who


can do it in a manner that's consistent with our values.





Q: A follow-up to that -- 





(Cross talk.)





Q: I'll follow-up his follow-up, if I may.





Q: Was there -- 





Rumsfeld: Maybe, maybe not.





Q: Given how predictable the lack of law and order was, as you said,


from past conflicts, was there part of General Franks' plan to deal


with it? And --





Rumsfeld: Of course.





Q: Well, what is it?





Rumsfeld: This is fascinating. This is just fascinating. From the very


beginning, we were convinced that we would succeed, and that means


that that regime would end. And we were convinced that as we went from


the end of that regime to something other than that regime, there


would be a period of transition. And, you cannot do everything


instantaneously; it's never been done -- everything instantaneously.


We did, however, recognize that there was at least a chance of


catastrophic success, if you will, to reverse the phrase, that you


could in a given place or places have a victory that occurred well


before reasonable people might have expected it, and that we needed to


be ready for that; we needed to be ready with medicine, with food,


with water. And, we have been.





And, you say, "Well, what was it in the plan?" The plan is a complex


set of conclusions or ideas that then have a whole series of


alternative excursions that one can do, depending on what happens.


And, they have been doing that as they've been going along. And,


they've been doing a darn good job.





Q: Yes, but Mr. Secretary, I'm asking about what plan was there to


restore law and order?





Rumsfeld: Well, let's just take a city. Take the port city, Umm Qasr


-- what the plan was. Well, the British went in, they built a pipeline


bringing water in from Kuwait; they cleared the mine of ports (sic)


[i.e., cleared the port of mines]; they brought ships in with food;


they've been providing security. In fact, they've done such a lousy


job, that the city has gone from 15,000 to 40,000. Now think of that.


Why would people vote with their feet and go into this place that's so


bad? The reason they're going in is because there's food, there's


water, there's medicine and there's jobs. That's why. The British have


done a fantastic job. They've done an excellent job.





And, does that mean you couldn't go in there and take a television


camera or get a still photographer and take a picture of something


that was imperfect, untidy? I could do that in any city in America.


Think what's happened in our cities when we've had riots, and


problems, and looting. Stuff happens! But in terms of what's going on


in that country, it is a fundamental misunderstanding to see those


images over, and over, and over again of some boy walking out with a


vase and say, "Oh, my goodness, you didn't have a plan." That's


nonsense. They know what they're doing, and they're doing a terrific


job. And it's untidy, and freedom's untidy, and free people are free


to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things. They're also


free to live their lives and do wonderful things, and that's what's


going to happen here.





Q: Can I do a quick follow-up?





Rumsfeld: I think I'll go over here.





Q: How about my follow-up, Mr. Secretary?





Rumsfeld: Well, we're considering it. (Laughter.)





Q: There's some additional specificity here. While you have just


expressed yet again your dismay at the international news media, in


fact, the reporting does factually show there are some certain number


of Iraqi citizens that have spoken on-camera quite directly about


their own concerns about the safety and security in Baghdad and that


situation. There have also been absolutely verified reports that it is


not just regime targets but indeed hospitals, banks, other facilities


essential to society. The ICRC has been on TV today saying that


hospitals are being looted, not regime targets you're speaking of, and


that they can't even get there to re-supply these essential hospitals.





Now, my question is, General Brooks said this morning that the


military -- U.S. military -- did not want to reconstruct the Iraqi


police force in Baghdad because the feeling of the U.S. military is


that that Iraqi police force has been operating against the U.S.


military. He didn't feel that was a secure solution. So with some


specificity, what type of Iraqi force can you bring to bear in Baghdad


to have Iraqis help restore security? And, what types of specific


tasks are you now going to assign the U.S. military to do to help


restore the situation, which the people of Baghdad appear to be


concerned about?





Myers: (Laughs.)





Rumsfeld: Well, hospitals. No, let's go back to what you said about


people.





You could take a camera and a microphone, and stick it in front of a


thousand people in Iraq today, and you could find someone saying every


single thing you've said and every single thing I've said. You're


going to find it all across the spectrum. You know, it's the facts on


the ground where a person is that determines how they feel about it.


And, there are some very dangerous places in that country and some


very difficult situations.





And, there is no question but there is a hospital that was looted.


There also is this fact: The Saddam Hussein regime and the Ba'ath


Party put their headquarters in hospitals all over that country. They


have been doing it systematically. Have we been complaining about


that? Have we been photographing that? Have we been bemoaning that?


No! Why? Because there wasn't a free press. You couldn't get in to do


it; you'd get thrown out. You'd get thrown in jail if you were an


Iraqi and you tried to do it.





A hundred and twenty-three schools were Ba'ath Party headquarters. Is


that a good thing to do to a school? Is that a good thing to do to a


hospital? No. But was there any complaint about it? No, there was no


complaint. Is it true that a hospital was looted? Yes. Is that


unfortunate? Yes. Do we have medicines and medical supplies coming in


behind to help the people in those situations? You bet we do.





Q: But I guess what I'm not hearing here is, either one of you


gentlemen, what tasks, with some specificity if you can, what U.S.


military forces in Baghdad will now be doing to help calm the


situation, or do you just --





Rumsfeld: They're already doing it. They're already going to hospitals


that are being looted and stopping it. If you look carefully, you'll


see images of people being arrested for looting, and they're walking


out with those little white things on their wrists and [told] "Don't


do that." And, they take them out of there and they tell them to go


someplace else. And, that's happening all over the place.





Myers: Here's the  -- 





Rumsfeld: Our folks are operating to the extent they can in Baghdad in


creating a presence and dissuading people from looting. And, for


suddenly the biggest problem in the world to be looting is really


notable.





Myers: Can I  -- 





Rumsfeld: (Inaudible) -- nice euphemism for what's going on. You bet.





Myers: This is the Baghdad report on humanitarian affairs. As you


know, we have civil affairs units that go right with -- embedded with


our combat units. They go into all these cities. They're in Baghdad


right now. Here's the report for today:





Combat operations continue in many parts of the city; what you've


already said.





Many residents are returning to the city.





Water: Sixty percent capacity. That's probably pre-war, but I don't


know -- pre-war capacity.





Electric power down on the west side of the city; emergency power to


critical facilities. So they're getting emergency power to the


critical facilities.





Food: Adequate supplies are stockpiled. ICRC [International Committee


of the Red Cross] warehouse secured by coalition forces. Food


warehouse has not been looted, as has been reported.





Medical: All hospitals are all operating, at reduced rates. ICRC is


supplying water and generators available. Large patient load, and on


and on it goes. But those are some specifics, though. We're in there,


working all those issues. That's always been part of the plan. This is


a transition period between war and what we hope, hopefully, will be a


much more peaceful time.





Rumsfeld: Yeah?





Q: If I may, Secretary Rumsfeld -- Terry Call (sp) from the (inaudible


word) Newspaper Group -- let me ask a question that is relevant to


your duties as secretary of defense, of -- and General Myers, as the


chairman, for a very successful military operation. And, that relevant


question is, could both of you address how consistent with your


optimistic and most hopeful results has the military operation been to


date? And correspondingly, do you and General Myers have the same


confidence, in a straightforward way, that the rebuilding of Iraq as a


successful society, with American assistance, will be consistent, as


you've tried to describe to the group here?





(Pause.) Are we -- (off mike) -- militarily, sir, as you expect in six


months we may be regarding the civil affairs matters?





(Pause.)





Rumsfeld: I had a list, a long list, of three or four, five, six pages


of things that could go wrong, because I tend to be conservative and


cautious. And I looked it over this morning, and a number, a large


number, haven't happened bad.





Q: (Off mike) -- the list?





Rumsfeld: Just a minute.





Q: OK. (Scattered laughter.)





Rumsfeld: Just a minute, Pam. In fact, I may not even come back to


you. (Laughter.)





Some of them are still open -- that could still go bad. There's no


question about that. There's still some tough stuff ahead, and -- but


one has to say that the speed that was used and the care that was used


in the targeting, and the tactical surprise that was achieved by


starting the ground war before the air war, undoubtedly contributed to


the fact that a number of those things didn't happen bad. The oil


wells weren't all blown up, and there's not a major humanitarian


crisis, despite the fact that someone's looting someplace. There were


not large refugees numbers. There were not large internally displaced


people numbers. So we feel good about that.





The task we've got ahead of us now is an awkward one, because you have


to go from a transition -- from a repressed regime to an unrepressed


regime that is free to do good things and also do bad things, and


we're going to see both. And, we expect that, and we also expect


people to report both. That's fine. But as we go through this, I feel


that we've got a group of wonderful people who have thought this


through, that are engaged in the process, that have done the planning


that will see that the kinds of food, and medicine, and water, and


assistance that are needed will happen. Will it be perfect? No. Will


it be bumpy? Sure. How do you go from -- take a -- look at every other


country that's done this. Look at East Germany, and Romania, and the


Soviet Union, pieces of that -- it isn't an easy thing to do. And, we


can't do it for them; the Iraqi people are going to have to do this,


in the last analysis. We can help, and we want to create an


environment that is as secure as possible, and that is as stable as


possible, so that they can find their "sea legs," if you will, and get


themselves on a path to the future.





Q: Mr. Secretary?





Myers: Can I -- can I tag  -- 





Rumsfeld: Excuse me. Go ahead.





Myers: Let me tag onto the end of that, because I think I do have


confidence. This is -- and I said earlier that it's uneven throughout


the country; that in the south the conditions are generally better. I


think the conditions for Baghdad -- Baghdad is a city that is still


not controlled by the coalition, where fighting and killing is still


going on. Those conditions I read don't sound too bad.





Let me give you Basra, a place we've been [in] a little bit longer,


and tell you what the situation is there. Looting has subsided. Still


some civilian disturbances. The U.K. is patrolling the city. Water


supplies are adequate. Electricity restored throughout the city. Food


supply is adequate. Medical facilities are functioning at prewar


levels. And there's a plan there to get the police -- those that have


been vetted, not Ba'athists -- to come back in and take over some of


their old jobs.





So it is uneven throughout the country, but that should give us


confidence that this is working exactly as the plan was supposed to


work.





Q: Secretary Rumsfeld, just one more question on the issue of this


plan. General Pace said yesterday that there are feelers being made to


other coalition members to provide police units.





Rumsfeld: Not feelers, requests.





Q: Requests.





Rumsfeld: We're out there -- we've had a big meeting on it today


already, and we're working the problem.





Q: Is this something that could have been lined up in advance so that


they were actually --





Rumsfeld: Well, you have international people already connected. Most


people wanted to defer a final decision until the war -- some of them


-- some of them require a U.N. resolution, they think. Some think they


require action by their parliament. Some think they would want to wait


until they were in -- what do you call it? -- stability phase, phase


four, as opposed to a kinetic phase. And so it varies from country to


country.





We have a number of countries lined up already, and what we're now


doing is going through and nailing down the kinds of assistance. I met


today with the deputy minister of defense of Singapore, Dick and I


did, and he's offered medical units and he's offered various other


things. And it's all now just getting nailed and it's moving in.


Already a number of countries have things moving into the country.





Q: (Off mike.)





Q: You couldn't have done it any faster?





Rumsfeld: That's wonderful. Are we in a quagmire? (Laughter.) Huh? Is


that where we are? Come on!





Q: (Off mike.)





Q: Mr. Secretary?





Q: The Churchill quote was a good one, but does it not  -- 





Rumsfeld: That was Dick.





Q: Yes. But does it not seem more like the beginning of the end rather


than the end of the beginning? What is your assessment on the end of


the Saddam Hussein regime?





Rumsfeld: I'll stick with Dick. (Laughter.)





Q: Mr. Secretary?





Q: General Myers? General Myers, can we talk about the current ongoing


combat operations, what you're seeing, or could you describe the


fighting in al Qaim in the west, and what's being seen there?





Myers: We haven't got our afternoon update, but my guess is the


fighting in al Qaim probably is drawing -- will be drawing -- to a


close here shortly. There have been intelligence reports that the


leaders in al Qaim want to surrender, and so I think that's going to


be worked out today, tomorrow. And, we have done our sensitive site


exploitation of the sites that we were interested in, were in there


and have looked at them. Results pending. In the north, things are


relatively quiet. You know how that happened in the north. The forces


up there essentially capitulated, left their equipment in place and


just left, and it remains fairly stable.





There are still enemy targets north of Baghdad, in Tikrit, and some


other of the major cities that are going to -- (we have to deal with


those ?).





Q: If I could follow up, Mr. Secretary. You've said numerous times


from this podium that Syria's actions have been notably unhelpful. Can


you definitively say what Syria is doing or not doing today as far as


this conflict goes? What are your comments on Syria's role today?





Rumsfeld: Well, I observed and Secretary Powell observed that that


country has been unhelpful. They've been unhelpful in several


respects. They have been unhelpful in the sense that they were


allowing military equipment to go into Iraq at a time when we were


engaged in a conflict there. And that's something for which we have a


minimum of high regard. The second thing I would say is they have been


allowing people to go into that country, and people who were intending


to oppose coalition forces. We don't like that, either. Third, they


have allowed people to come out of that country into their country and


either stay or transit. None of these things are helpful.





Q: Has it continued?





Rumsfeld: We've not seen any night goggles going in in the last 15


minutes. But are there people still moving out of the country into


Syria? Yes.





Q: Mr. Secretary, why don't you just update us a little bit on what


progress you're making, if any, on some of the unfinished missions you


outlined the other day, specifically accounting for senior regime


leadership, such as the ones on these playing cards that were


distributed today, the search for weapons of mass destruction, and


what about the American prisoners of war? Can you tell us you're


making any progress on any of those three fronts?





Rumsfeld: I think, I hope when I spoke those words that I prefaced it


by saying the first task is to prevail in this conflict and to stop


the forces of Saddam Hussein in the areas that they continue to


operate in, and to reduce the violence. That is the principal


assignment. And, then to point out how much work was still ahead of


us, I listed all of these six, eight, 10 things that are on our


priority list. They will, of necessity, follow along behind, although,


as I said, when there happens to be a weapon of mass destruction


suspect site in an area that we occupy, and if people have time,


they'll look at it. And, then they'll send things out to be examined


and looked at. We clearly have people dedicated to trying to find the


prisoners of war, ours and others from the '91 war. And as we are


successful in any of those things, we'll report them. Undoubtedly,


there will be embedded reporters there when they happen and will


report them.





But I don't have anything particular to note, except that there are


documentations that have been retrieved and they are being looked at.


We are looking for people. We continue to look for people who can help


us find the people we want to find, and people who can help us find


the weapon sites of interest and people who can help us find records,


for example, of Ba'ath Party members and the like. But I don't have


anything of note to report.





Q: Of those 50-more-plus people who were listed today on the most


wanted list, can you account for any of those at this point?





Rumsfeld: Sure. Some aren't there.





Q: How many?





Rumsfeld: I don't know. Who keeps count? (Laughs, laughter.)





Q: Mr. Secretary, in the -- going back to Baghdad for a minute. Are


there steps that are being taken, for instance, increasing the number


of troops there, declaring curfews --





Rumsfeld: There's more troops coming into the country every day.





Q: -- (inaudible) -- protecting installations like hospitals with, you


know --





Rumsfeld: Let's take them one at a time. Yes. Yes. Yes. There are more


troops moving into the Baghdad area every day, as well as other


cities. There's more medicine arriving to help with hospitals. There


is a curfew, I believe, in Baghdad.





Myers: Yes, there is.





Q: Throughout Baghdad?





Rumsfeld: Except for daylight hours, throughout Baghdad. We don't


control all of Baghdad, but we've suggested a curfew.





Q: Mr. Secretary, may I do the follow-up, please, just to his


follow-up? A very good question.





Rumsfeld: Why don't you just do an original one?





Myers: Yeah, it's been so long. Why don't you come up with one  -- 





(Scattered laughter.)





Q: I'll do an original question, and I'll phrase, then, to General


Myers -- (inaudible). General, going back to the security environment


that the secretary talked about, have you considered possibly using a


reservoir of talent that exists in this country -- retired policemen


and police chiefs, many of whom have volunteered to go over and help,


many of whom speak Arabic?





Myers: I think the answer would be yes. In -- it's exactly -- this is


perhaps more the secretary's answer than mine, but in putting together


the team that is looking at how we do our assistance, after the


kinetic piece of the conflict is over, it's exactly the kind of people


we're looking for.





And, so all that is being bundled up, and people have been calling to


volunteer. I know we have medical personnel that want to help --


police and many others, plus we're picking people that have expertise


in many different areas, so they can go in and help mentor those


Iraqis who will be running the various ministries as they stand back


up and the communities around that country. So yes.





Q: Are you concerned that the ransacking of government offices may


have destroyed some of the evidence and paperwork trail of war crimes


that we hoped to prosecute? Are you taking any steps to secure that?





Rumsfeld: As best we can. We're certainly looking for records. There's


no question but that embassies around the world, and the intelligence


agencies, and the Ba'ath Party headquarters, and the SSO offices and


the special Republican Guard headquarters all had records. And, would


it be nice to have all those records? You bet. Will we get some of


them?





Q: (Off mike) -- anything like that?





Rumsfeld: You bet. We've -- we have offered two things. One is


financial rewards. And, we've also said that if people have spotty


backgrounds, assisting us might make their futures brighter.





Q: Mr. Secretary, if I could -- 





Q: Sir, I had a follow-up on the weapons of mass destruction issue. We


keep hearing "results are pending, results are pending" of these early


finds. What can --





Rumsfeld: Of which one of this  -- 





Q: Well, the finding weapons of mass destruction. Here's my question:


What can you guarantee the U.S. public and a skeptical world that U.S.


soldiers will eventually find, without any shadow of a doubt in your


mind, by way of raw agents, weapons facilities? And how long should


they wait before they start making conclusions that maybe the U.S.


didn't have the evidence in the first place?





Rumsfeld: You know, I've got a lot of confidence in the American


people.





Q: No, no, what will the  -- 





Rumsfeld: You said how long should they wait, how should they --


before they lose -- I've got a lot of confidence in the American


people. I do not deny for a minute that there's just an enormous,


insatiable appetite to get every piece of information yesterday. And,


I'm afraid that when you're fighting a war, that's not your first


problem. So they're out there trying to keep people from getting


killed, and trying to provide the security, and trying to prevent the


looting. And, there are a long list of tasks that we have to do, and


we will do them.





Secretary Powell presented a presentation to the United Nations and


the world. He laid out intelligence community estimates from the


Central Intelligence Agency, and there is not a doubt but that we


will, over a period of time, find people who can tell us where to go


look for those things. We are not going to find them, in my view, just


as I never believed the inspectors would, by running around seeing if


they can open a door and surprise somebody and find something, because


these people have learned that they can live in an inspection


environment -- the Iraqis did; they functioned in that environment,


they designed their workplaces to do that. Things were mobile, things


were underground, things were in tunnels, things were hidden, things


were dispersed. Now, are we going to find that? No. It's a big


country. What we're going to do is we're going to find the people who


will tell us that, and we're going to find ways to encourage them to


tell us that.





Q: Can I ask a follow-up? I asked General Myers last week that


Secretary Powell, in his February 5th presentation, highlighted


weapons -- warheads, biological warheads, that were purportedly moved


to the U.S. I asked him if the U.S. had tracked any of those, since


those were tangible pieces of hardware, and he was unaware at the


moment, at that time --





Rumsfeld: Who was that?





Q: General Myers.





Myers: That was me. (Laughter.) But it was a correct report, it was a


correct -- it was a correct report. I went back and did my research,


it's absolutely right.





Q: OK.





Myers: And we tracked it as far as we could track it, and that's the


end of that.





Q: (Off mike.)





Myers: Don't know.





Rumsfeld: Bill?





Q: This is a "Where is Saddam" question. Have the coalition forces


secured --





Rumsfeld: Oh, no. Not really? Is that [what] he said? "Where is Saddam


question"?





Q: Yeah. Have coalition forces secured the Mansour area, where the


major leadership attack took place? And, based on the results of that


attack, things seemed to collapse right after that. Do you have any


better opinion yet of the fate of Saddam?





Rumsfeld: Correct me if I'm wrong, but my recollection is that they


have not secured that area. First of all, most of these places, these


sites, are not like this press room. These are big places with lots of


acres, and underground bunkers, and the like.





You're talking about the Dorma Farm, the first night?





Q: No, the most recent one.





Q: No, no. The restaurant.





Rumsfeld: Oh, the most recent one, the other one?





Q: Mansour district.





Rumsfeld: Yeah. Well, there was -- there were two places. One was a


restaurant, and one was a house nearby. And the question is, who was


in what, if anybody? And the answer is -- Do we have ground truth


there? And the answer is no.





Q: Well, have you gotten to that site, though? Are you looking for the


ground truth here?





Rumsfeld: Currently we're looking. The question is a priority list.


Have you -- what do you do first? The first thing you do is to try to


end the war, and to stop people from killing people, or stop people


from blowing up trucks in people's faces, and stop people from doing a


whole series of things that are unhelpful, stop them from burning the


oil wells.





Q: Well, on the top list, you said must capture or otherwise deal with


-- 





Rumsfeld: I didn't say "must" to any of these. I said these are on our


priority list.





Q: -- must capture or otherwise deal with Saddam Hussein and his sons


--





Rumsfeld: No "musts." No "must."





Q: Mr. Secretary  -- 





(Cross talk.)





Rumsfeld: It's part of it -- Saddam Hussein and his sons. That's


right. Blacklist. Fifty people, plus more. You have lots of things on


the list.





(Cross talk.)





Q: Well, on a very small, knowable question, have the U.S. forces


actually reached that site in the city --





Rumsfeld: I'll be right with you.





Can you answer his question? Jamie's question?





Myers: I cannot answer it.





Q: You don't  -- 





Myers: We'll check on it.





Rumsfeld: I just don't know. But I will say this. If we did, we might


not have found anything anyway.





Q: I just want to know if you got  -- 





Rumsfeld: You're going to have to find people who were there, who tell


you what happened, or else you're going to have to start digging in


rubble. I mean, that's just a fact. That's a reality.





Myers: And I think our priorities now would not be to be digging in


rubble. We have fighting to do in Baghdad. It could be -- well be in


[an] area that is not so [filled with] rubble -- and that kind of work


is not -- that's next.





Rumsfeld: We'll make this the last question.





Myers: Rubble's not  -- 





Q: Mr. Secretary  -- 





Rumsfeld: Don't make a follow-up. Just ask a fresh, straight-out


question.





Q: We're hearing reports of communications intercepts of Iraqis


discussing Saddam's death. Are you hearing that? Are there any


communications intercepts along that line?





Rumsfeld: I have heard people talk about chatter, unverifiable, with


almost any conceivable report of that type you can imagine -- that


he's alive, that he's not alive, that somebody saw him here, and no,


that was his double, that --





Q: No authorities  -- 





Rumsfeld: Well, no. You don't -- I do not personally have -- I've not


personally seen enough intelligence from reliable sources -- and not


single-source conclusions, but multiple sources -- that are reliable,


that would enable me to walk up and say that I have conviction that


he's dead. I also lack conviction that he's alive.





I promise you I'm not keeping anything from you. If I had conviction,


I would say so, and I don't. And I see a lot of information.





Thank you.





(end transcript)